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	<title>Comments on: Writing Excuses Season 3 Episode 30: Unreliable Narrators</title>
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	<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/12/13/writing-excuses-season-3-episode-30-unreliable-narrators/</link>
	<description>Fifteen minutes long, because you&#039;re in a hurry, and we&#039;re not that smart.</description>
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		<title>By: William Greeley</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/12/13/writing-excuses-season-3-episode-30-unreliable-narrators/comment-page-1/#comment-41912</link>
		<dc:creator>William Greeley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/?p=212#comment-41912</guid>
		<description>Why use an unreliable narrator? When any character says something that the reader knows is in conflict with reality, it increases dramatic tension. Conflict is always good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why use an unreliable narrator? When any character says something that the reader knows is in conflict with reality, it increases dramatic tension. Conflict is always good.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Rawlins</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/12/13/writing-excuses-season-3-episode-30-unreliable-narrators/comment-page-1/#comment-37399</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Rawlins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/?p=212#comment-37399</guid>
		<description>Ya know, this post made me think of Mistborn (BEFORE they mentioned it). Specifically, Hero of Ages, and more specifically, the allomatic chart at the end of the book. Later on, Brandon released that poster of the chart on his website, which was different than the one in the book. The conclusion I&#039;ve come to is simply that the characters got it wrong... so would that fit under this topic? Or is that just Brandon and his Knivening Sneakery? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya know, this post made me think of Mistborn (BEFORE they mentioned it). Specifically, Hero of Ages, and more specifically, the allomatic chart at the end of the book. Later on, Brandon released that poster of the chart on his website, which was different than the one in the book. The conclusion I&#8217;ve come to is simply that the characters got it wrong&#8230; so would that fit under this topic? Or is that just Brandon and his Knivening Sneakery? <img src='http://www.writingexcuses.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Podsuming on the 12 of January &#124; BrainWyrms</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/12/13/writing-excuses-season-3-episode-30-unreliable-narrators/comment-page-1/#comment-37285</link>
		<dc:creator>Podsuming on the 12 of January &#124; BrainWyrms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/?p=212#comment-37285</guid>
		<description>[...] Writing Excuses Season 3 Episode 30: Unreliable Narrators [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Writing Excuses Season 3 Episode 30: Unreliable Narrators [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eric J. Ehlers</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/12/13/writing-excuses-season-3-episode-30-unreliable-narrators/comment-page-1/#comment-37208</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric J. Ehlers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/?p=212#comment-37208</guid>
		<description>Ok, Dan and Brandon, at least, should have known that I&#039;d bring this one up: Where is the Don Quijote reference? 

Cervantes set that one of blatantly and obviously -- his main character appears to have some sort of delusions. But the problem is, does he? There&#039;s a good argument to be made from the text that he knows exactly what he&#039;s doing by living out this fantasy, from the name of his horse to the way he treats others. So when he says &quot;Yo sé quien soy&quot; (&quot;I know who I am&quot;) after being identified by his (real) name by one of his peasants, how seriously can we take him? The answer depends on your reading. 

But he also does more than that. The frame story is hwo the narrator found this text -- he bought the texts from a Moor (who in the beginning of the 17th century Spain were considered incredibly unreliable and were thought to deliberately lie to Christians) which were then translated by another Moor on the narrator&#039;s expense. In 1606 Iberia, this meant that there wasn&#039;t a single part of that process that could be believed. Top that with the fact that it&#039;s clearly a satire of a genre known, even by then, to be extremely anachronistic -- well, *is* there any aspect of it you can trust? 

(He takes one more step, too, in the ten years after part 1 was published, some &quot;unauthorized&quot; sequels were published, which Cervantes, his narrator, and the don himself all condemn as false -- but most characters still believe them and they&#039;re treated as part of Quijote&#039;s past).

These elements are at the core of the reasons why the Quijote continues to be an enduring classic both in Spanish and in translation more than 400 years later. What do we make of it? what about it is true? if it talks about our human nature, is it just making it up or are there things in there that we can actually use?

Another very dramatic (if you&#039;ll excuse the pun) is Beckett&#039;s _Waiting for Godot_. Everything is seen from the perspective of our two protagonists, who are essentially hobos, and have the worst memories. They can&#039;t even remember where they&#039;ve been in their lives. (A slightly modified English translation approved by Beckett has a bit where one says they&#039;ve been to California&#039;s Napa Valley and the other says he only remembers being to the &quot;Crappa Valley&#039;). They believe liars and cons who come their way, and are hugely impressed by clearly false credentials. In the end... is this Godot person they&#039;re waiting for real? Or are they waiting for nothing? it&#039;s a good example of using character type and point of view to make the narrative murky at best, which gets people to think about it long after the author dies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, Dan and Brandon, at least, should have known that I&#8217;d bring this one up: Where is the Don Quijote reference? </p>
<p>Cervantes set that one of blatantly and obviously &#8212; his main character appears to have some sort of delusions. But the problem is, does he? There&#8217;s a good argument to be made from the text that he knows exactly what he&#8217;s doing by living out this fantasy, from the name of his horse to the way he treats others. So when he says &#8220;Yo sé quien soy&#8221; (&#8220;I know who I am&#8221;) after being identified by his (real) name by one of his peasants, how seriously can we take him? The answer depends on your reading. </p>
<p>But he also does more than that. The frame story is hwo the narrator found this text &#8212; he bought the texts from a Moor (who in the beginning of the 17th century Spain were considered incredibly unreliable and were thought to deliberately lie to Christians) which were then translated by another Moor on the narrator&#8217;s expense. In 1606 Iberia, this meant that there wasn&#8217;t a single part of that process that could be believed. Top that with the fact that it&#8217;s clearly a satire of a genre known, even by then, to be extremely anachronistic &#8212; well, *is* there any aspect of it you can trust? </p>
<p>(He takes one more step, too, in the ten years after part 1 was published, some &#8220;unauthorized&#8221; sequels were published, which Cervantes, his narrator, and the don himself all condemn as false &#8212; but most characters still believe them and they&#8217;re treated as part of Quijote&#8217;s past).</p>
<p>These elements are at the core of the reasons why the Quijote continues to be an enduring classic both in Spanish and in translation more than 400 years later. What do we make of it? what about it is true? if it talks about our human nature, is it just making it up or are there things in there that we can actually use?</p>
<p>Another very dramatic (if you&#8217;ll excuse the pun) is Beckett&#8217;s _Waiting for Godot_. Everything is seen from the perspective of our two protagonists, who are essentially hobos, and have the worst memories. They can&#8217;t even remember where they&#8217;ve been in their lives. (A slightly modified English translation approved by Beckett has a bit where one says they&#8217;ve been to California&#8217;s Napa Valley and the other says he only remembers being to the &#8220;Crappa Valley&#8217;). They believe liars and cons who come their way, and are hugely impressed by clearly false credentials. In the end&#8230; is this Godot person they&#8217;re waiting for real? Or are they waiting for nothing? it&#8217;s a good example of using character type and point of view to make the narrative murky at best, which gets people to think about it long after the author dies.</p>
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		<title>By: Addison Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/12/13/writing-excuses-season-3-episode-30-unreliable-narrators/comment-page-1/#comment-37129</link>
		<dc:creator>Addison Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/?p=212#comment-37129</guid>
		<description>Great show! I am new to the podcast, and I knew I would love it as soon as I heard the Douglas Adams reference. :) I enjoyed the podcast, and am off to listen to some of the older ones. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great show! I am new to the podcast, and I knew I would love it as soon as I heard the Douglas Adams reference. <img src='http://www.writingexcuses.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I enjoyed the podcast, and am off to listen to some of the older ones. <img src='http://www.writingexcuses.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Reaves</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/12/13/writing-excuses-season-3-episode-30-unreliable-narrators/comment-page-1/#comment-37128</link>
		<dc:creator>Reaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/?p=212#comment-37128</guid>
		<description>This podcast reminded me a lot of The Turn of the Screw, in which a major aspect of the psychological horror is that you are stuck inside of this woman&#039;s head who may or may not be sane. You can&#039;t tell, because neither can she.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This podcast reminded me a lot of The Turn of the Screw, in which a major aspect of the psychological horror is that you are stuck inside of this woman&#8217;s head who may or may not be sane. You can&#8217;t tell, because neither can she.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Barker</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/12/13/writing-excuses-season-3-episode-30-unreliable-narrators/comment-page-1/#comment-37127</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/?p=212#comment-37127</guid>
		<description>Get y&#039;er red hot transcript right here... 

http://mbarker.livejournal.com/129751.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Get y&#8217;er red hot transcript right here&#8230; </p>
<p><a href="http://mbarker.livejournal.com/129751.html" rel="nofollow">http://mbarker.livejournal.com/129751.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Matthew Whitehead</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/12/13/writing-excuses-season-3-episode-30-unreliable-narrators/comment-page-1/#comment-37126</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Whitehead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/?p=212#comment-37126</guid>
		<description>@Ineluki: I think you should err on the side of writing too many hints, because you can always strip out the worst ones if it&#039;s just too easy to guess. That&#039;s the sort of thing test readers and writing groups are made for. There&#039;s no reason to be afraid of trying it either way (or both ways) and seeing what works for your current project.

There are guidelines, like the rule of threes if you need to establish a pattern of things happening. I&#039;d also say there&#039;s a rule of oversight: You can drop at least three times as many hints if an object is completely innocuous yet critically important to the plot later. If you talk about a hairpin in five throwaway statements the beginning of the story, it&#039;s totally awesome to find out it was the murder weapon later. Remember, you can always go back and make it more surprising by sharpening up your misdirection. Revision is awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ineluki: I think you should err on the side of writing too many hints, because you can always strip out the worst ones if it&#8217;s just too easy to guess. That&#8217;s the sort of thing test readers and writing groups are made for. There&#8217;s no reason to be afraid of trying it either way (or both ways) and seeing what works for your current project.</p>
<p>There are guidelines, like the rule of threes if you need to establish a pattern of things happening. I&#8217;d also say there&#8217;s a rule of oversight: You can drop at least three times as many hints if an object is completely innocuous yet critically important to the plot later. If you talk about a hairpin in five throwaway statements the beginning of the story, it&#8217;s totally awesome to find out it was the murder weapon later. Remember, you can always go back and make it more surprising by sharpening up your misdirection. Revision is awesome.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Wells</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/12/13/writing-excuses-season-3-episode-30-unreliable-narrators/comment-page-1/#comment-37125</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/?p=212#comment-37125</guid>
		<description>My favorite example of an unreliable narrator was Millions (the book).  It&#039;s first person from the point of view of a seven or eight-year-old kid, and the kid doesn&#039;t understand a lot of what is happening around him (or, he understands it in a very different way from how adult readers will understand it).  It&#039;s handled amazingly: the book hits a number of powerful themes, such as consumerism and the corrupting power of money, but it&#039;s all through the eyes of an innocent little kid.  

So he&#039;s not unreliable in that he&#039;s trying to hide something--he&#039;s unreliable because he&#039;s young and doesn&#039;t really know what&#039;s going on around him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My favorite example of an unreliable narrator was Millions (the book).  It&#8217;s first person from the point of view of a seven or eight-year-old kid, and the kid doesn&#8217;t understand a lot of what is happening around him (or, he understands it in a very different way from how adult readers will understand it).  It&#8217;s handled amazingly: the book hits a number of powerful themes, such as consumerism and the corrupting power of money, but it&#8217;s all through the eyes of an innocent little kid.  </p>
<p>So he&#8217;s not unreliable in that he&#8217;s trying to hide something&#8211;he&#8217;s unreliable because he&#8217;s young and doesn&#8217;t really know what&#8217;s going on around him.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/12/13/writing-excuses-season-3-episode-30-unreliable-narrators/comment-page-1/#comment-37124</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/?p=212#comment-37124</guid>
		<description>Ha I&#039;m ahead of the game, I owned and read the poem before Dan mentioned it on the podcast ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha I&#8217;m ahead of the game, I owned and read the poem before Dan mentioned it on the podcast <img src='http://www.writingexcuses.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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