Comments on: Writing Excuses Season 3 Episode 23: How to Write Without Twists

By: Vikram

Vikram — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:40:46 +0000

one of austem’s juvenilia involved a parody of epistolary novels, in which the putative writer of the letters writes them while on the shoulder of an abductor etc. i can just imagine something like that, maybe jane austen being bruce willis and somehow noting down everything that’s happening even as she dives around kicking ass. maybe to help it make more sense instead of writing everything down she has one of those retro voice recorder things, or the pen slash voice note recorder they used to sell on tv around the time die hard was released.

By: Schreibratgeber « Katastrophengebiet

Schreibratgeber « Katastrophengebiet — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 06:10:58 +0000

[...] gehört, dass jemand direkt gesagt hätte, es gäbe mehrere Möglichkeiten, eine Story aufzubauen. Und zwar in dieser Folge von Writing Excuses. Warum gibt es das nicht öfter? Müsste nicht rein statistisch schon mal irgendwer auf die Idee [...]

By: LRK

LRK — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:19:26 +0000

Well, I’m terribly late to this, so nobody will read this, probably, but then I can use this for my own musings, to clear my mind a bit…

Plot twists. The revelation of a good plot twist makes me feel as if I have been looking at a picture, and trying to make sense of it, and then suddenly you turn it around and look at it from another angle, and you feel “Oh, this was what it was!” It makes sense, it fits what went before, it feels satisfying. Also a good plot twist should work on a re–read/re-watch when you know what is coming. Examples of this – for me – are the books of Diana Wynne Jones, and the movie Prestige (haven’t read the book yet). I’ve re-read some of her books several times, and re-watched Prestige quite closely to having seen it the first time, and they made perfect sense. (In the movie I could actually see… well, never mind.)

In the podcast it was mentioned that books not relying on twists should be shorter… I wonder if the exceptions to this might be character based novels… And what about classics? (Dickens, Trollope etc.) Every time I see Hamlet I wish it will turn out differently – and yet it never does…. Sigh. (Of course, it wouldn’t work at all, if it did.)

And historical novels. You can’t really write a novel which relies on your reader not knowing the outcome – what happens to Anne Boleyn can’t be a matter of that kind of suspense. And even if you use a less well-known figure – say, Simon de Montfort (“Falls the Shadow” by Sharon Penman, for instance), you still must count on at least some of your readers being familiar with what happened. Alternative history of course throws all this out of the window.

And then I was also thinking about things like Babylon 5 where major plot spoilers are given away without even remotely lessening the suspense. The shadow war, for instance, or the death of a character – since we know prophesy and foretelling work, you should be sure nothing fatal will happen to them before that – and it doesn’t matter. Perhaps because it is very character-driven, and because it matters how and why something happens, not merely what happens. For instance while you know the fate of a character, you never knew:

“When we first met, I had no power, and all the choices I could ever want. And now I have all the power I could ever want, and no choices at all. No choice – at all.”

Well, it probably as well, that I’m so late to this discussion, as, really, I don’t know where I’m going with this. Anyway, it amused me to write it – and no one will be harmed by having to read it.

PS On some of this I’m being purpsely vague, trying to avoid giving away spoilers.

By: AJWM

AJWM — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:35:43 +0000

@Ty – As far as agents go, there’s no point looking for one until you have a completed manuscript to turn over. They’re going to want proof that you can write and that you can finish a project before they spend time on you.

Some professional writers will also tell you to wait until you have an offer from an editor, and then find an agent to work out the contract details. Certainly it will be easier to get an agent if there’s already an offer on the table, and a good agent will get enough beyond the initial offer (either in terms of advance or retained rights or whatever) to be worth more than his/her commission. Remember, the agent is the employee of the writer.

Mind, there are a lot of not so good agents out there, so you need to do your homework beforehand, whether you’re sending your book to an agent first or waiting until you get that call from an editor.

As far as finding a receptive editor in the first place — well, “all of the above” comes to mind. Well, except the bits about cornering and wheedling.

By: Ty Legge

Ty Legge — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:24:11 +0000

Addendum 1: In addition to previous post (see above) — Where does the agent fit into this vast array of “what now”? Do you look for an agent before, during, or after the aforementioned actions, or at all? Do agents find you after you have a book deal?

Globs of appreciation in advance.

By: Ty Legge

Ty Legge — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 02:24:50 +0000

Dear B, D, & H,

I’m not sure if this is the right place to post a plea for future podcast content. Let me know if it isn’t and I won’t put it here. No response. Darn the non-immediacy of blogging.

Anyway. I have been assimilating the information you have given in every one of your previous podcasts (resistance has been futile) and I am wondering if you will address this topic directly and wholly, rather than in bits and pieces:

Okay. So I have my book written and revised, edited and formatted. What now? Do I try to find an editor? Do I send samples to publishers? Do I attend Cons and try to corner either of the above and wheedle out of them the much requested, golden contact information? Do I post chapters online and try to generate an audience before, or after, doing any of the above? Do I try to publish a few short stories first and let the right people come to me, while I’m working on the next book?
Hmmm…
In short: When I’m done–what now?

By: Mike Barker

Mike Barker — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 11:06:31 +0000

transcript’s over there…

http://mbarker.livejournal.com/127276.html

By: WEKM

WEKM — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:09:34 +0000

Oh, and this just in, Brandon will debut at #1 NY Times on Sunday.
Let’s all give him a big hand. I know he deserves it. YEA!

By: WEKM

WEKM — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:12:22 +0000

It also seems that in this podcast we discover Dan’s kryptonite, “Jane Austin”.

By: Dan J.

Dan J. — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:03:35 +0000

I think Aaron nailed it in the first post. A plot twist is a revelation of a fact which forces the reader to reevaluate all of the events that have already occurred. He mentions “Sixth Sense.” Once you realize the psychologist is dead, all of the scenes that have gone before have to be completely reevaluated. “Ender’s Game” is another example. You thought one thing was happening – reveal – bam! All of the previous scenes have to be reevaluated because what you thought was happening wasn’t what was actually happening. Many of M. Night Shyamalan’s movies are this way. You thought Mr. Glass was helping the Hero. You thought the Village was set in primitive times. Other movie examples: “Wild Things,” “Malice,” “Wicker Park,” “Usual Suspects,” “Planet of the Apes,” etc. In all of them, the key to the twist is that you have been fooled about what’s actually occurring.

A surprise, on the other hand, doesn’t force a re-evaluation of the story. It’s simply an unexpected event.