Comments on: Writing Excuses Season 3 Episode 12: Subplots

By: John Brown

John Brown — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 05:38:34 +0000

I don’t know if TV screenplays translate to same wordage, but here’s the first episode of Burn Notice: http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/burnnotice/season1/burnnotice-101.htm.

17,000 words.

If it’s roughly equivalent then you certainly can have b and c stories in something even that short.

Anyone here know the conversion factor?

By: AlanHorne

AlanHorne — Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:02:58 +0000

I don’t ever believe I’ve seen a subplot in a short story, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done. I’d say do it and see if it works. If it does, then kudos.

By: Clifton Hill

Clifton Hill — Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:35:54 +0000

Curious question, does anybody feel there is a need for subplots within a short story of 11k words? Seems unnecessary due to the still small size and the fact that the payoff of the main plot comes fairly quickly. Certainly a shorter story it would be entirely unnecessary.

Thoughts?

By: John Brown

John Brown — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:26:48 +0000

Dan J,

You’re statement “introduced as an additional impediment the characters must deal with while trying to resolve the conflict of the main” sounds accurate to me. I had the same thoughts during the podcast. Running out of food is a main plot complication, not a b story. My experience is that you’re going to need a complication or three in every chapter, some large some small. But you certainly won’t be adding that many b stories.

By: Dan J.

Dan J. — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:50:48 +0000

It seems to me that the term “subplot” was used in subtly different ways through out the podcast, and that’s the real reason for some of the disagreement, such as the ideal number of subplots. There’s a difference in a subplot that runs through all (or at least most) of a story and a miniplot or microplot that is introduced and then resolved in a shorter section of the story and largely serves to advance the main plot.

The example of characters who run out of food and must go hunting to survive seems more like a miniplot. It’s introduced as an additional impediment the characters must deal with while trying to resolve the conflict of the main plot, some resolution is found, and the story moves on past it. On the other hand, Vin’s self doubt and her need to deal with her past in _Mistborn_ is a subplot that runs the entire length of the trilogy. Depending on the length of the work, it seems like there could be many miniplots, certainly more than three to five in a long novel, without detracting from the work. However, more than three to five long-running subplots is difficult to sustain.

Just my $.02, and thanks for a great podcast!

By: Mike Barker

Mike Barker — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:52:33 +0000

And a transcript…

http://mbarker.livejournal.com/121686.html

By: Karl

Karl — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:26:05 +0000

Star Trek TNG, DS9 and Voyeger all played on the A story/ B story format. I often felt that they had two stories that weren’t strong enough to fill an hour and so mashed them together. The result was that both failed more times than not.

I gave up on Heroes because I was interested in only 3-4 of the 9 overall stories running concurrently. I guess I didn’t have the intestinal fortitude to withstand the more annoying characters.

By: Titus

Titus — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:07:08 +0000

I find myself doing doing fist pumps when I find that the episode is long. Right after which I have to explain to my family members that I’m just an idiot. Nothing to see here. This isn’t the doofus you’re looking for. Move along.

Thank you for delivering 22 hours, 22 minutes, and 55(.84) seconds of reliably entertaining and enlightening content. Not including the extras on my Season 1 CD.

By: AlanHorne

AlanHorne — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:31:44 +0000

“Subplots” sounds like you’re selling space for a grave…beneath another grave. I know overcrowding of cemeteries is a real problem, but don’t you think that’s a little extreme?

I know my book has two or three subplots, and I think I handle them pretty well. I mean, if you’ve got a group of characters on a journey, and each of them is on the journey for a different reason, that’s fertile soil for some interesting subplots. I try to keep the subplots short, though, and usually bring the narrative back to the main story within the same chapter. Sometimes, though, I wonder what it would be like to write a parallel novel with the same story but with the focus completely shifted to a different character. But that’s probably a bit too advanced for me right now. I’ll stick to getting just these first two books published.

By: John Brown

John Brown — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:44:04 +0000

I broke down both a number of Lost and Heroes episodes a while back. I’ll have to go back and check, but if I recall correctly, Lost often had 3-4 stories, Heroes had 6-9. In EACH episode.

Also, I like how the TV world views this. They don’t call them “subplots,” but “A story, B story, C story.” It makes you realize that they’re stories, and you need to develop them as such–introduce the threat/lack/mystery, complicate, resolve. It’s just that the A story is going to take more stage time and have more twists and story cycles than the D story.