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	<title>Comments on: Writing Excuses Season 2 Episode 28: Applying Critical Reading: &#8220;Watchmen&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/</link>
	<description>Fifteen minutes long, because you&#039;re in a hurry, and we&#039;re not that smart.</description>
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		<title>By: Johnny</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/comment-page-1/#comment-40533</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Mar 2011 19:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/#comment-40533</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m wondering if you would do another podcast where you go through a few pages of a book, line by line or paragraph by paragraph, and talk about the techniques the writer is using.

I have been writing for a couple of years now, but I write whatever thought comes out of my head. I&#039;m not consciously using any technique, not writing technique nor storytelling technique.  So I don&#039;t feel like a writer, still stumbling around in darkness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m wondering if you would do another podcast where you go through a few pages of a book, line by line or paragraph by paragraph, and talk about the techniques the writer is using.</p>
<p>I have been writing for a couple of years now, but I write whatever thought comes out of my head. I&#8217;m not consciously using any technique, not writing technique nor storytelling technique.  So I don&#8217;t feel like a writer, still stumbling around in darkness.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric J. Ehlers</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/comment-page-1/#comment-37346</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric J. Ehlers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/#comment-37346</guid>
		<description>Hopefully I can add to this commentary instead of objecting.

You guys critiqued Watchmen as a story. But as Howard mentioned, you need to spend time on the graphics as well. This is because it&#039;s a comic book. And especially in the case of &lt;i&gt;Watchmen&lt;/i&gt;, the medium it is in needs to be taken into account. Because there&#039;s a LOT in there that is understood better when you look at it not just as a superhero story, but as a superhero COMIC.

The Black Freighter bit is a major case in point. The Black Freighter tells a story much more reminiscent of the 40s and 50s &quot;EC&quot; style horror and true crime comics. These stories weren&#039;t being told in the 80s for various reasons, primarily due to the horrid bit of pretend psychology &lt;i&gt;Seduction of the Innocent&lt;/i&gt; and the subsequent Congressional witch hunt. They don&#039;t fit.

UNLESS superheroes are real. Reading superheroes isn&#039;t an escape if you&#039;ve had real superheroes and rejected them as a society. Once you&#039;ve done that, your comic books start seeking other material. Rejecting the voluntary Comic Code Authority approval might come up a lot sooner (the iron grip the CCA had on comics  didn&#039;t really end until the late 90s). The Black Freighter storyline is content that responds directly to the setting information.

That doesn&#039;t clear it up so much in terms of plot, but it explains why it was a good addition for setting, and for the alternate purpose of the work: criticizing the industry responsible for the comic medium.

Indeed, the CCA is the &quot;Watchman&quot; that watches our (ours, not the ones within the book) superhero watchmen. Ponder on that for a while, because I think explicating would ruin the discovery involved. It&#039;s a very elegant inclusion.

Of course, that leaves it up for debate whether they&#039;ve taken on too much. Maybe it detracts from the primary narrative, but it wouldn&#039;t have worked on its own, separated from a narrative like our heroes. I loved how it informed the relationship between the newstand owner and the kid, which informed the setting that our heroes operated in. You couldn&#039;t get an objective review of the setting from someone like Adrian (who makes his money partially from having been a hero in the past through merchandising) or Rorshach who hates it all, or even from Night Owl who willingly goes along with it. These two provide us with a &quot;man on the street perspective.&quot; We can&#039;t trust that the cold war is really that bad from our heroes, we need the &quot;peasants,&quot; as it were, to provide it for us.

And speaking of characterization, the absolute best inclusion of character anywhere in this book is the fact that Night Owl is fat. (Which can bring us back to the illustrations -- I don&#039;t remember his weight being discussed, but there&#039;s a panel where he&#039;s nekkid that makes it undeniable.)

As a parting remark, thanks for this one, guys. It gave me yet another reason to hate Marvel&#039;s &quot;Civil War&quot; storyline. STABBITY DEATH! I already didn&#039;t like it, but analyzing &lt;i&gt;Watchmen&lt;/i&gt; reminded me again how Marvel is always behind the curve and trying to copy the major triumphs of DC (DC did &lt;i&gt;Kingdom Come&lt;/i&gt;, an epic, PAINTED story, which Marvel followed up with &lt;i&gt;Code fo Honor&lt;/i&gt; which was both a much weaker story and less well illustrated. Though I did have to admit that when they released &lt;i&gt;Marvels&lt;/i&gt; the story didn&#039;t have as immediate impressiveness it was a significant accomplishment in writing.) In Civil War, they used the conspiracy ending that Moore had in &lt;i&gt;Watchmen&lt;/i&gt;, only it didn&#039;t work nearly as well, primarily because the reasoning for it was terrible.

anyway, done writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully I can add to this commentary instead of objecting.</p>
<p>You guys critiqued Watchmen as a story. But as Howard mentioned, you need to spend time on the graphics as well. This is because it&#8217;s a comic book. And especially in the case of <i>Watchmen</i>, the medium it is in needs to be taken into account. Because there&#8217;s a LOT in there that is understood better when you look at it not just as a superhero story, but as a superhero COMIC.</p>
<p>The Black Freighter bit is a major case in point. The Black Freighter tells a story much more reminiscent of the 40s and 50s &#8220;EC&#8221; style horror and true crime comics. These stories weren&#8217;t being told in the 80s for various reasons, primarily due to the horrid bit of pretend psychology <i>Seduction of the Innocent</i> and the subsequent Congressional witch hunt. They don&#8217;t fit.</p>
<p>UNLESS superheroes are real. Reading superheroes isn&#8217;t an escape if you&#8217;ve had real superheroes and rejected them as a society. Once you&#8217;ve done that, your comic books start seeking other material. Rejecting the voluntary Comic Code Authority approval might come up a lot sooner (the iron grip the CCA had on comics  didn&#8217;t really end until the late 90s). The Black Freighter storyline is content that responds directly to the setting information.</p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t clear it up so much in terms of plot, but it explains why it was a good addition for setting, and for the alternate purpose of the work: criticizing the industry responsible for the comic medium.</p>
<p>Indeed, the CCA is the &#8220;Watchman&#8221; that watches our (ours, not the ones within the book) superhero watchmen. Ponder on that for a while, because I think explicating would ruin the discovery involved. It&#8217;s a very elegant inclusion.</p>
<p>Of course, that leaves it up for debate whether they&#8217;ve taken on too much. Maybe it detracts from the primary narrative, but it wouldn&#8217;t have worked on its own, separated from a narrative like our heroes. I loved how it informed the relationship between the newstand owner and the kid, which informed the setting that our heroes operated in. You couldn&#8217;t get an objective review of the setting from someone like Adrian (who makes his money partially from having been a hero in the past through merchandising) or Rorshach who hates it all, or even from Night Owl who willingly goes along with it. These two provide us with a &#8220;man on the street perspective.&#8221; We can&#8217;t trust that the cold war is really that bad from our heroes, we need the &#8220;peasants,&#8221; as it were, to provide it for us.</p>
<p>And speaking of characterization, the absolute best inclusion of character anywhere in this book is the fact that Night Owl is fat. (Which can bring us back to the illustrations &#8212; I don&#8217;t remember his weight being discussed, but there&#8217;s a panel where he&#8217;s nekkid that makes it undeniable.)</p>
<p>As a parting remark, thanks for this one, guys. It gave me yet another reason to hate Marvel&#8217;s &#8220;Civil War&#8221; storyline. STABBITY DEATH! I already didn&#8217;t like it, but analyzing <i>Watchmen</i> reminded me again how Marvel is always behind the curve and trying to copy the major triumphs of DC (DC did <i>Kingdom Come</i>, an epic, PAINTED story, which Marvel followed up with <i>Code fo Honor</i> which was both a much weaker story and less well illustrated. Though I did have to admit that when they released <i>Marvels</i> the story didn&#8217;t have as immediate impressiveness it was a significant accomplishment in writing.) In Civil War, they used the conspiracy ending that Moore had in <i>Watchmen</i>, only it didn&#8217;t work nearly as well, primarily because the reasoning for it was terrible.</p>
<p>anyway, done writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Travis Manley</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/comment-page-1/#comment-36542</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis Manley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/#comment-36542</guid>
		<description>Great podcast. FYI, the side story in Watchmen is &quot;Tales of the Black Freighter,&quot; not &quot;Black Frigate.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great podcast. FYI, the side story in Watchmen is &#8220;Tales of the Black Freighter,&#8221; not &#8220;Black Frigate.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/comment-page-1/#comment-35556</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/#comment-35556</guid>
		<description>I finally finished Watchmen and listened to this.  Personally, I felt the Black Flag story was fantastic, especially the way it was used near the end of the book to &quot;tell&quot; the story of the people around the news stand.  The two stories were almost providing commentary to each other, and was a wonderful story telling device.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I finally finished Watchmen and listened to this.  Personally, I felt the Black Flag story was fantastic, especially the way it was used near the end of the book to &#8220;tell&#8221; the story of the people around the news stand.  The two stories were almost providing commentary to each other, and was a wonderful story telling device.</p>
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		<title>By: John Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/comment-page-1/#comment-35117</link>
		<dc:creator>John Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/#comment-35117</guid>
		<description>S.M., 

I had a hard time with parts of Bitterwood as well. I couldn&#039;t buy into the dragons for some reason. I kept seeing men in plastic suits. So I&#039;d get to a good part and that would just take me right out of the story. I understand Dragonforge (the second) is a much more successful story. It&#039;s the book the drew Orson Card in (you don&#039;t have to have Bitterwood to read it). I&#039;m going to be giving that one a shot because some of Maxey&#039;s stories are soooo good for me. His &quot;To Know All Things In The Earth&quot; out on Intergalactic Medicine Show is a favorite short story of mine. Still, no book is for everyone. 

Still, that post matches up with my experience writing so well. Craft is critical. And we can learn a lot from stories that don&#039;t work for us. But in the end passion rules the process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S.M., </p>
<p>I had a hard time with parts of Bitterwood as well. I couldn&#8217;t buy into the dragons for some reason. I kept seeing men in plastic suits. So I&#8217;d get to a good part and that would just take me right out of the story. I understand Dragonforge (the second) is a much more successful story. It&#8217;s the book the drew Orson Card in (you don&#8217;t have to have Bitterwood to read it). I&#8217;m going to be giving that one a shot because some of Maxey&#8217;s stories are soooo good for me. His &#8220;To Know All Things In The Earth&#8221; out on Intergalactic Medicine Show is a favorite short story of mine. Still, no book is for everyone. </p>
<p>Still, that post matches up with my experience writing so well. Craft is critical. And we can learn a lot from stories that don&#8217;t work for us. But in the end passion rules the process.</p>
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		<title>By: S.M.</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/comment-page-1/#comment-35099</link>
		<dc:creator>S.M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/#comment-35099</guid>
		<description>@ John Brown: Thanks for that link. That&#039;s definitely a good post there. I wish I could have enjoyed BITTERWOOD but it just didn&#039;t do it for me :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ John Brown: Thanks for that link. That&#8217;s definitely a good post there. I wish I could have enjoyed BITTERWOOD but it just didn&#8217;t do it for me <img src='http://www.writingexcuses.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mike Barker</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/comment-page-1/#comment-35092</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:52:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/#comment-35092</guid>
		<description>And a transcript...

http://mbarker.livejournal.com/110515.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And a transcript&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://mbarker.livejournal.com/110515.html" rel="nofollow">http://mbarker.livejournal.com/110515.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/comment-page-1/#comment-35059</link>
		<dc:creator>John Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/#comment-35059</guid>
		<description>Hum. Can&#039;t seem to get that link to work. So here it is raw instead of embedded in an anchor tag.

http://jamesmaxey.blogspot.com/2009/04/only-law-of-literature.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hum. Can&#8217;t seem to get that link to work. So here it is raw instead of embedded in an anchor tag.</p>
<p><a href="http://jamesmaxey.blogspot.com/2009/04/only-law-of-literature.html" rel="nofollow">http://jamesmaxey.blogspot.com/2009/04/only-law-of-literature.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/comment-page-1/#comment-35058</link>
		<dc:creator>John Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/#comment-35058</guid>
		<description>Read &lt;a&gt;The Only Law of Literature&lt;/a&gt; today. I think Maxey&#039;s post is brilliant. And the website he&#039;s reacting to is probably a great example of how NOT to conduct a writer&#039;s reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read <a>The Only Law of Literature</a> today. I think Maxey&#8217;s post is brilliant. And the website he&#8217;s reacting to is probably a great example of how NOT to conduct a writer&#8217;s reading.</p>
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		<title>By: Chella</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/comment-page-1/#comment-35050</link>
		<dc:creator>Chella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/04/19/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-28-applying-critical-reading-watchmen/#comment-35050</guid>
		<description>Great episode.

I think it would also be good to use texts..shock, horror...not from sci fi or fantasy.

There is a lot to learn from classic works - why are they considered classics, what makes them great!? Expanding your influences can only be a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great episode.</p>
<p>I think it would also be good to use texts..shock, horror&#8230;not from sci fi or fantasy.</p>
<p>There is a lot to learn from classic works &#8211; why are they considered classics, what makes them great!? Expanding your influences can only be a good thing.</p>
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