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	<title>Comments on: Writing Excuses Season 2 Episode 25: The Seven Deadly Sins of Slush Stories</title>
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	<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/</link>
	<description>Fifteen minutes long, because you&#039;re in a hurry, and we&#039;re not that smart.</description>
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		<title>By: Howard Tayler</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-34787</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard Tayler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 00:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/#comment-34787</guid>
		<description>It was a bad internet day, Sof.

Your comment was not taken as &quot;good faith, useful feedback.&quot; You came across as mean-spirited, and your posting appeared ignorant of the facts of the matter regarding the frequency with which we openly advertise our own work.

My only fault was responding in kind. 

Unfortunately your response is ALSO in kind, so moral high ground has been lost to both of us. Your haranguing reeks of personal attack. Sure, you&#039;ve toned it down some, but you&#039;re using fightin&#039; words. &quot;Teenager,&quot; and &quot;extremely unprofessional&quot; while perhaps justified are loathsome epithets in this setting and you know it. Yet you brandish those words freely.

You&#039;ve let me drag you down to my level. Or perhaps I&#039;ve been dragged down to yours. Shame on both of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was a bad internet day, Sof.</p>
<p>Your comment was not taken as &#8220;good faith, useful feedback.&#8221; You came across as mean-spirited, and your posting appeared ignorant of the facts of the matter regarding the frequency with which we openly advertise our own work.</p>
<p>My only fault was responding in kind. </p>
<p>Unfortunately your response is ALSO in kind, so moral high ground has been lost to both of us. Your haranguing reeks of personal attack. Sure, you&#8217;ve toned it down some, but you&#8217;re using fightin&#8217; words. &#8220;Teenager,&#8221; and &#8220;extremely unprofessional&#8221; while perhaps justified are loathsome epithets in this setting and you know it. Yet you brandish those words freely.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve let me drag you down to my level. Or perhaps I&#8217;ve been dragged down to yours. Shame on both of us.</p>
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		<title>By: Sof</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-34773</link>
		<dc:creator>Sof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/#comment-34773</guid>
		<description>(Please don&#039;t derail the rest of the comment-discussion by letting this comment through; I&#039;d send this via email but a cursory examination doesn&#039;t show one, so  this seemed the most expedient method of addressing what I have to say:)

Howard - regarding your response to my criticism about the advert:
That was extremely unprofessional. I made that comment in good faith to provide you with honest, hopefully useful feedback. Your response was churlish, sarcastic, gave the impression that you can&#039;t handle criticism, and set up a heavy incentive for anyone else who dislikes an aspect to just not bother telling you, and not come back. ... why do all that, when it would have been so easy to just be polite, or even ignore the comment altogether? I mean, look at the choices:

You have a listener (a potential customer) who has made a mild complaint. You could:
A) Ignore the comment. Nothing happens.
B) Acknowledge the comment with the explanations you gave - minus the sarcasm, and the last paragraph. Listener has a positive experience from giving feedback, feels heard and appreciated, and will likely continue listening. You look professional and accepting of criticism, and your more fanatical fans take the criticizer down a peg or two for you anyway. Everybody wins.
C) Make sarcastic remarks that dismiss and belittle the listener&#039;s complaint, alienating them (and potentially anyone else that had a sympathetic opinion), make yourself look like the childish bully who can&#039;t handle mean words, drive listener away. Everyone loses.

I know you&#039;re a smart guy. So I can&#039;t for the life of me work out why the hell you chose option C. It seems my comment really got up your nose, which I find surprising - it wasn&#039;t particularly harsh, nor even directed at your work, but rather at an action you made. I would expect you&#039;d deal with far worse in your career as an artist. I&#039;m sorry to harp on, I&#039;m just flummoxed that you&#039;d respond like that. That&#039;s the kind of response I&#039;d expect from a teenager in a forum, not a professional on their own webpage. This is how you&#039;re representing your professional self. Sure, it&#039;s a message board, so it&#039;s a little more relaxed and casual, but that doesn&#039;t mean you act unprofessionally. How you conduct yourself still reflects on your professional image. Maybe I just caught you on a Bad Internet Day, but that was not an appropriate - not even an adult - way to handle that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Please don&#8217;t derail the rest of the comment-discussion by letting this comment through; I&#8217;d send this via email but a cursory examination doesn&#8217;t show one, so  this seemed the most expedient method of addressing what I have to say:)</p>
<p>Howard &#8211; regarding your response to my criticism about the advert:<br />
That was extremely unprofessional. I made that comment in good faith to provide you with honest, hopefully useful feedback. Your response was churlish, sarcastic, gave the impression that you can&#8217;t handle criticism, and set up a heavy incentive for anyone else who dislikes an aspect to just not bother telling you, and not come back. &#8230; why do all that, when it would have been so easy to just be polite, or even ignore the comment altogether? I mean, look at the choices:</p>
<p>You have a listener (a potential customer) who has made a mild complaint. You could:<br />
A) Ignore the comment. Nothing happens.<br />
B) Acknowledge the comment with the explanations you gave &#8211; minus the sarcasm, and the last paragraph. Listener has a positive experience from giving feedback, feels heard and appreciated, and will likely continue listening. You look professional and accepting of criticism, and your more fanatical fans take the criticizer down a peg or two for you anyway. Everybody wins.<br />
C) Make sarcastic remarks that dismiss and belittle the listener&#8217;s complaint, alienating them (and potentially anyone else that had a sympathetic opinion), make yourself look like the childish bully who can&#8217;t handle mean words, drive listener away. Everyone loses.</p>
<p>I know you&#8217;re a smart guy. So I can&#8217;t for the life of me work out why the hell you chose option C. It seems my comment really got up your nose, which I find surprising &#8211; it wasn&#8217;t particularly harsh, nor even directed at your work, but rather at an action you made. I would expect you&#8217;d deal with far worse in your career as an artist. I&#8217;m sorry to harp on, I&#8217;m just flummoxed that you&#8217;d respond like that. That&#8217;s the kind of response I&#8217;d expect from a teenager in a forum, not a professional on their own webpage. This is how you&#8217;re representing your professional self. Sure, it&#8217;s a message board, so it&#8217;s a little more relaxed and casual, but that doesn&#8217;t mean you act unprofessionally. How you conduct yourself still reflects on your professional image. Maybe I just caught you on a Bad Internet Day, but that was not an appropriate &#8211; not even an adult &#8211; way to handle that.</p>
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		<title>By: onelowerlight</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-34763</link>
		<dc:creator>onelowerlight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/#comment-34763</guid>
		<description>Info dumping.  That would be an interesting podcast topic--not just what it is, but what it is a symptom of and strategies for avoiding it.

I personally define an &quot;info dump&quot; as anything that interrupts the story to get across information, necessary or unnecessary.  Basically, it&#039;s anything that makes your writing sound more like a textbook and less like a novel, and I hate it.  I might differ from some of the people here, but I think that there is never a time when you need an info dump, and that if your reader really does need that information, there is always some other way of getting it across.  When I write my stories, my goal is to get to the end without ever info dumping, not once.

In a previous Writing Excuses episode, Patrick Ruthfuss had some very interesting advice.  He said that if you withhold information from the reader in the right way, it creates a sense of mystery that generates interest in that piece of story.  When you finally do reveal it, the reader is thrilled rather than bored.  

I suppose it&#039;s analogous to some of the geeky conversations we&#039;ve all had with people who are less inclined towards sci fi / fantasy.  Have you ever been really, really eager to tell people all about this great story that you read, or that you&#039;re writing, only to find that you&#039;ve monopolized the conversation for the past half hour and everyone else is losing interest?  An info dump is like that.  You&#039;ve got to find a way to make them interested in it, and often times that means restraining yourself and withholding the information until there is a more appropriate way to get it across.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Info dumping.  That would be an interesting podcast topic&#8211;not just what it is, but what it is a symptom of and strategies for avoiding it.</p>
<p>I personally define an &#8220;info dump&#8221; as anything that interrupts the story to get across information, necessary or unnecessary.  Basically, it&#8217;s anything that makes your writing sound more like a textbook and less like a novel, and I hate it.  I might differ from some of the people here, but I think that there is never a time when you need an info dump, and that if your reader really does need that information, there is always some other way of getting it across.  When I write my stories, my goal is to get to the end without ever info dumping, not once.</p>
<p>In a previous Writing Excuses episode, Patrick Ruthfuss had some very interesting advice.  He said that if you withhold information from the reader in the right way, it creates a sense of mystery that generates interest in that piece of story.  When you finally do reveal it, the reader is thrilled rather than bored.  </p>
<p>I suppose it&#8217;s analogous to some of the geeky conversations we&#8217;ve all had with people who are less inclined towards sci fi / fantasy.  Have you ever been really, really eager to tell people all about this great story that you read, or that you&#8217;re writing, only to find that you&#8217;ve monopolized the conversation for the past half hour and everyone else is losing interest?  An info dump is like that.  You&#8217;ve got to find a way to make them interested in it, and often times that means restraining yourself and withholding the information until there is a more appropriate way to get it across.</p>
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		<title>By: Kizor</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-34762</link>
		<dc:creator>Kizor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 00:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/#comment-34762</guid>
		<description>Oh, great. Now I&#039;ve got to start a story with a shadowy board-room discussion that lasts for all of ten lines before a guy with a machine gun and a motorcycle bursts through the window. The plot will then go from there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, great. Now I&#8217;ve got to start a story with a shadowy board-room discussion that lasts for all of ten lines before a guy with a machine gun and a motorcycle bursts through the window. The plot will then go from there.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Barker</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-34760</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/#comment-34760</guid>
		<description>The only way to get into the introducing slots is through the bar, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only way to get into the introducing slots is through the bar, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Raethe</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-34759</link>
		<dc:creator>Raethe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/#comment-34759</guid>
		<description>Great, Mike - thanks for the link.

I believe Baen&#039;s universe also has a couple of &quot;introducing&quot; slots for the magazine that would be worth looking into for new writers. I don&#039;t remember whether that was part of Baen&#039;s Bar or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great, Mike &#8211; thanks for the link.</p>
<p>I believe Baen&#8217;s universe also has a couple of &#8220;introducing&#8221; slots for the magazine that would be worth looking into for new writers. I don&#8217;t remember whether that was part of Baen&#8217;s Bar or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Barker</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-34756</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/#comment-34756</guid>
		<description>One small addition to the discussion about Jim Baen&#039;s Universe submissions. Nancy mentioned this in passing in the podcast, but there weren&#039;t many details about it. One method for making submissions is to work with the Baen&#039;s Universe Slush on Baen&#039;s Bar. This can be particularly good for beginning writers, because the slush pile also has Baen&#039;s Universe Slush Comments -- where people will help you improve your submission. So while the over-the-transom submissions are closed right now, the Baen&#039;s Universe Slush is still open. Go over to http://bar.baen.com/ and log in. Take a look at Baen&#039;s Universe Facts, where Sam Hideka and others discuss story writing and the slush system, and then try out this combination of writers&#039; workshop and slushpile. Who knows, your story might get RTFed (selected for the editors to look at)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One small addition to the discussion about Jim Baen&#8217;s Universe submissions. Nancy mentioned this in passing in the podcast, but there weren&#8217;t many details about it. One method for making submissions is to work with the Baen&#8217;s Universe Slush on Baen&#8217;s Bar. This can be particularly good for beginning writers, because the slush pile also has Baen&#8217;s Universe Slush Comments &#8212; where people will help you improve your submission. So while the over-the-transom submissions are closed right now, the Baen&#8217;s Universe Slush is still open. Go over to <a href="http://bar.baen.com/" rel="nofollow">http://bar.baen.com/</a> and log in. Take a look at Baen&#8217;s Universe Facts, where Sam Hideka and others discuss story writing and the slush system, and then try out this combination of writers&#8217; workshop and slushpile. Who knows, your story might get RTFed (selected for the editors to look at)?</p>
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		<title>By: Howard Tayler</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-34746</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard Tayler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 04:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/#comment-34746</guid>
		<description>Worldbuilder&#039;s disease keeps you from writing. Infodumping keeps you from getting on with the story. Of the two, infodumping is the lesser evil because hey, you&#039;re WRITING. And when you&#039;re done the infodump can be edited back out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worldbuilder&#8217;s disease keeps you from writing. Infodumping keeps you from getting on with the story. Of the two, infodumping is the lesser evil because hey, you&#8217;re WRITING. And when you&#8217;re done the infodump can be edited back out.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Barker</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-34743</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 04:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/#comment-34743</guid>
		<description>Just pondering the connection between worldbuilder&#039;s disease (or is that a syndrome?) and infodumping. It seems to me that there is likely to be a relationship. Perhaps infodumping is likely to be a symptom of worldbuilder&#039;s disease? After all, I spent all this time figuring out the 29 generations of the royal family, etc., I&#039;m sure my readers will be interested in hearing their lineage -- and therein begins an infodump?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just pondering the connection between worldbuilder&#8217;s disease (or is that a syndrome?) and infodumping. It seems to me that there is likely to be a relationship. Perhaps infodumping is likely to be a symptom of worldbuilder&#8217;s disease? After all, I spent all this time figuring out the 29 generations of the royal family, etc., I&#8217;m sure my readers will be interested in hearing their lineage &#8212; and therein begins an infodump?</p>
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		<title>By: David Noceti</title>
		<link>http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-34742</link>
		<dc:creator>David Noceti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 03:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writingexcuses.com/2009/03/29/writing-excuses-season-2-episode-25-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-slush-stories/#comment-34742</guid>
		<description>@Howard: Plug away. You guys do us a great service and I always did think that the plug song was silly. The way I see it you&#039;ve earned the self-promotions, shameless or otherwise. Maybe the Sof&#039;s of the world would like to start paying for the episodes. I for one try show my appreciation for what you guys do by supporting the work you produce and linking back to you guys for others to find. 

And sick on his birthday, aye? Smells fishy to me, but I&#039;ll accept it as truth. :o) 

Keep up the good work and congratulations on the good sales.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Howard: Plug away. You guys do us a great service and I always did think that the plug song was silly. The way I see it you&#8217;ve earned the self-promotions, shameless or otherwise. Maybe the Sof&#8217;s of the world would like to start paying for the episodes. I for one try show my appreciation for what you guys do by supporting the work you produce and linking back to you guys for others to find. </p>
<p>And sick on his birthday, aye? Smells fishy to me, but I&#8217;ll accept it as truth. <img src='http://www.writingexcuses.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' /> ) </p>
<p>Keep up the good work and congratulations on the good sales.</p>
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