Comments on: Writing Excuses Season 2 Episode 18: World Building Governments

By: TH Sumner

TH Sumner — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 00:18:03 +0000

Sumner’s Law? There already is one posited around 1950 by yours truly:

In competitive situations intended effects tend to cancel each other while side effects
tend to accumulate so that the ultimate result is what no one intended.

By: Justice1337

Justice1337 — Mon, 24 May 2010 22:33:56 +0000

Good Podcast.

I always thought that one of the more disingenuous things about fantasy was the level of ignorance on the part of authors concerning authentic medieval politics. There were rarely “God save the King” monarchies, or at least, those monarchies never mixed with nationalism to the effect of creating the token Fantasy Kingdom. The Catholic Church also had much more of a role in Feudal Europe than religion often does High Fantasy.

Feudalism was very important to medieval governance in Europe after the 12th century and William the Conqueror. Feudalism means everyone gets a slice of the pie, and that the person you’re most afraid of as a street urchin is the local Lord. See George Martin for an excellent use of feudalism in fantasy. Authentic Feudal England was the goal, and he hit it square.

As for the abstract, I think governemnt is important because every real person has to live with government influence in some capacity, and so every real character does too. I find what’s most helpful is separating what I call “the powers of government”, and allocating them among as many factions as desired. Also, maybe there’s just going to be one faction, but nothing says he needs every power of government. Feudal Kings never had the power to try cases and controversies, for example. Power to spend, pass new civil and criminal laws, provide for defense, regulate international/interstate traffic, define/establish the state religion, enforcement of laws …. there’s really a wide array of powers that can be allocated among a society in really interesting ways – all to evoke a particular setting with a purpose.

By: CR. Sumner

CR. Sumner — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:51:49 +0000

I’m going to name this Sumner’s law, because it amuses me.

Sumner’s law: any conflict must have it’s root in the flaws of someone involved.

be it a flaw in thinking, speaking, preperation, choice, ect.

as Brandons example in a past podcast of a horse throwing a shoe can be a conflict, it can be tied back to who ever’s idea it was to take the horse in the first place, thus blame occurs and hence, more conflict!

support my ego and support me in Sumner’s law!

By: CR. Sumner

CR. Sumner — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:34:13 +0000

one other point one should look at, is how information is controlled by the goverment. Information is key when looking at the views of the common person. It can prevent riots or start them, make a nation laugh at its leader and lose respect for him, or make him more imposing than he really is. Information has only two sides, thuth and lies. Both of these elements are the sole cause of conflict in life, in almost every aspect. Winston Churchill said “the truth is so valuable that it is sometimes protected by a body of lies”. Information is the reason for spies who steal it, Priest who preach it, newspapers who publish it, a lovers argument ect. so how information is controlled or spread in any way, at any level and in any situation, is grounds for setting up conflict

By: CR. Sumner

CR. Sumner — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:19:00 +0000

Goverment is a pretty easy in world building, being that there are tons of texts on the subject. In setting up conflict tied in is another thing entirely. (ne of the main things i would suggest is looking at pre-existing goverments of past and present, and look at tying in conflicts that an actual goverment has had due to its philosophy. You have to make it believable, and if you have a conflict that would never arise out of your goverments philosophy, its not going to be. example: if you have a king, whos word is law, you cant very well have a judge giving compassion in any direction other than the kings. you could also say “why is the judge even there” being that kings gave sentence to criminals many times. when creating a goverment i encourage to finish it, then look at what real govermentr you have created, because if you were smart enough to think of a system, its more than likely been thought of and tried before in the real world somewhere. wiki is a good place to look, the list of goverment systems is far larger than most people would ever think. but they all have flaws, and you can find these flaws written out in books on a specific goverment, so find the goverment that most resembles your own, and find the flaws it has had, because flaws are a great place to start conflict.

By: Winter Sunday Stats #10: Things Are Looking Up. « The Unfocused Life

Winter Sunday Stats #10: Things Are Looking Up. « The Unfocused Life — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:28:54 +0000

[...] Girl #156 (What Is the Plural of Scissors?) and #157 (When to Use a Comma with “Too”); Writing Excuses, Season 2, Episode 18 (World Building Governments) and Episode 19 (Do Creative Writing Classes Help?); and various episodes of NPR’s Planet [...]

By: Guerry

Guerry — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:27:08 +0000

Random comments after browsing the thread:

Poor or non-existent public works = disease (a potential conflict or plot point)

In support of Eliyanna’s comment to Jen about Feudal systems. Brandon’s character Rashek in Mistborn briefly outlines many different religions, each refreshingly different. I can imagine that one can make agrarian societies and feudal systems feel fresh and new by twisting and hooking things together in interesting, new ways.

By: Manley

Manley — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 22:25:51 +0000

Colon Cleansers Gov’t: A Clean Body or Fertilizer (in example: the death sentence for failing a lab report)
Government of the Healthy, By the Healthy, For the Healthy: Elected based on Lab results (Only people with good cholesterol numbers can hold office)
Democracy: Newsflash- Senators dying of heartfailure at over 30% this year, something must be done

I suppose I will always step back to democracy as the foundation of oddball government because its what I grew up with and so its what I know. FDR was a good example of what can happen when congress panics.

By: Jen

Jen — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:07:52 +0000

I think the public works thing can be a perfect detail if it feeds into the conflict. For example, one of my POV characters’ father is a high noble in a frontier territory (government boundaries established 50 years prior). Part of his political machinations, then, include irrigation canals and sewage diversion. This wouldn’t be the case if the marq weren’t so new. And the laansed fields didn’t feed his factories with biodiesel. Qui bono? If it benefits a bad guy, it’s interesting enough to mention.

By: Alex

Alex — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:14:42 +0000

About the public works you do not directly describe that. In writing fantasy you rarely will describe every little detail of the government. I mean I drop hints when I write or it is explained when a war is coming up and you see plans from the enemies point of view. My point is that you will almost never describe every little detail of a government, public works and more. If you wrote like a companion book or a guide of some sort then that is different.